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| - Zuckerberg did not use those exact words but did call for more masculine energy in corporations, saying they are "neutered" and are "trying to get away" from masculine energy, while a culture that "celebrates the aggression" has merits. He also said "you want feminine energy, you want masculine energy," while adding "you're gonna have parts of society that have more of one or the other. I think that's all good."
On Jan. 10, 2025, Meta CEO and founder Mark Zuckerberg appeared on "The Joe Rogan Experience" podcast to discuss, among other things, his decision to end Meta's third-party fact-checking program and instead rely on user-driven "Community Notes," as popularized by X. A purported quote from the interview, in which Zuckerberg called for more "masculine energy" in corporations, was shared widely online.
A number of headlines and posts on social media highlighted the claim.
(@Intetyst / X)
Without using those exact words, Zuckerberg did call for corporations to have more masculine energy, saying a culture that "celebrates the aggression a bit more" has merits. However, he added that companies also should have feminine energy. The bulk of his commentary focused on how society and corporations are "neutered" and how martial arts helped him find a "masculine culture." (Please note, some posts amplifying this claim say Zuckerberg wants to "replace" feminine energy with masculine energy, which is not an accurate paraphrase of his words.)
Zuckerberg makes the comment at the 1:28:39 mark:
We have reproduced the relevant comment below with the necessary context (emphasis ours):
I think a lot of the corporate world is, like, pretty culturally neutered. […] I have three sisters, no brothers. I have three daughters, no sons. So I'm, like, surrounded by girls and women, like, my whole life. And it's like so I think, I don't know. [The] kind of masculine energy, I think, is good. Obviously, you know, society has plenty of that, but I think corporate culture was really, like, trying to get away from it. […] All these forms of energy are good, and I think having a culture that, like, celebrates the aggression a bit more has its own merits that are really positive. And that has been a kind of a positive experience for me.
Just, like, having a thing that I can just do with my guy friends. […] And we just, like, beat each other a bit. I don't know. It's good. It is good.
[…]
And I think part of the intent on all these things, I think, is good. Right? I do think that if you're a woman going into a company, it probably feels like it's too masculine. It's like there isn't enough of the kind of the energy that you may naturally have, and it probably feels like there are all these things that are set up that are biased against you. And that's not good either, because you want women to be able to succeed and have companies that can unlock all the value from having great people no matter, you know, what their background or gender. You know?
But I think these things can all always go a little far. And I think it's one thing to say we wanna be kind of, like, welcoming and make a good environment for everyone, and I think it's another to basically say that masculinity is bad. And I just think we kind of swung culturally to that part of the spectrum where, you know, it's all like, masculinity is toxic. We have to, like, get rid of it completely. It's like, no. Both of these things are good. Right? It's like you want feminine energy. You want masculine energy. I think that's like, you're gonna have parts of society that have more of one or the other. I think that that's all good. But I do think the corporate culture sort of had swung towards being this somewhat more neutered thing. And I didn't really feel that until I got involved in martial arts, which I think is still a much more masculine culture. And, so — and not that it doesn't try to be inclusive in its own way, but I think that there's just a lot more of that energy there.
Zuckerberg lamented the loss of "masculine energy" in corporations while still saying all forms of energy are good and acknowledging that women going into companies might experience too much masculinity there. That said, he claimed that culture and corporations were calling masculinity "toxic" and that he found a way to it through the aggression of martial arts.
The billionaire's comments came as Meta announced plans to terminate its diversity, equity and inclusion programs and lay off around 5% of its workers. Zuckerberg also plans to co-host a gala for U.S. President-elect Donald Trump's inauguration.
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